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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: [Acro] Re: Section 91.303

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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: [Acro] Re: Section 91.303


Thread: [Acro] Re: Section 91.303

Message: [Acro] Re: Section 91.303

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From: John Cornwell <jwcornwell at>

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:10:14 UTC


  The regs for aircaft with experimental certificates preclude, without the
special OK of the administrator, flight "over a densely populated area or in a
congested airway."  I don't know if that means you can't fly over a town of
full of idiots, or if the ingestion of Dristan by the airway would alleviate
the congestion problem.  Would the FSDO qualify as a "densely populated

Seriously, I would guess that "densely populated area" as set forth in
91.319(c) and "congested area of a city, town, or settlement" from 91.303(a)
have entirely different meanings.  I have been told by the FAA that one house
is a "settlement" as far as 91.303(a) is concerned.  I have no idea what would
cause that house to become legally congested.


Klein Gilhousen <kleing at> wrote:
At 01:18 PM 3/14/2002 -0500, John Cornwell wrote:
>Why give the FAA a chance to say no?  A waivered box doesn't give you any
>protection anyway.  Arguably, the NOTAM which you will be required to file
>every time you fly in your box will compromise safety by attracting common
>bozos to the scene.  If there are houses (or even 1 house) under your
>area, the FAA will, and should, say no to your waiver request.  Then, you
>it is illegal to fly acro there.  What do you do then?  I think you would be
>much better off if you could charm that 1 homeowner and then fly when you
>to and shut up about it.
>I have been flying aerobatics in an unwaivered practice area in metropolitan
>NY for 20 years.  I have been careful to be inconspicuous -- I don't know of
>single noise complaint and nobody knows who I am or what I'm doing.  I like
>that way.

Let me guess; you fly glider aerobatics, right?  Or maybe at 12k+ feet?

I get noise complaints even here in the wide open spaces of Montana.  One 
time, the noise complaints ended up at the FAA who then promptly took away 
my waiver.  I eventually got it back, but it took a year and a lot of work 
to get back.

I think the only rational, common sense way to interpret the congested 
airspace definition is that it is not congested if you could make a forced 
landing without unduly jeopardizing people or property on the ground.  The 
congested areas thing also appears as operating limitations for 
experimental airplanes.  If a single house constituted congestion, you 
could never fly the things anywhere.

Klein Gilhousen
Bozeman, MT


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