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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: RESULT: rec.aviation.aerobatics passes 316:22 ...


Thread: RESULT: rec.aviation.aerobatics passes 316:22 ...

Message: RESULT: rec.aviation.aerobatics passes 316:22 [news.announce.newgroups #8373]

Follow-Up To: ACRO Email list (for List Members only)

From: gei at (Guenther Eichhorn)

Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:44:14 UTC


Good news, rec.aviation.aerobatics passed with flying color.  Such a solid vote is rare in
the rec.aviation hierarchy.  Thanks to everybody for voting.


------ Forwarded Article <831739378.5806 at>
------ From Jani Patokallio <jpatokal at>

       unmoderated group rec.aviation.aerobatics passes 316:22

There were 316 YES votes and 22 NO votes, for a total of 338 valid votes.
There was 1 abstain and 4 invalid ballots.

For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes.   There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.  If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter.

Newsgroups line:
rec.aviation.aerobatics	Aerobatics and unusual attitude flying.

The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 9 May 1996.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Guenther Eichhorn <gei at>
Votetaker: Jani Patokallio <jpatokal at>

RATIONALE: rec.aviation.aerobatics

Throughout the rec.aviation hierarchy there have been numerous threads
concerning aerobatics maneuvers, often with cross-postings to several
rec.aviation groups in an attempt to find the intended audience.
Discussions about the pro's and con's of spin training for instance
have shown that there is a considerable interest in this subject among
participants in the rec.aviation groups.  These discussions are
important, both for regular flying (e.g. stall/spin training), as well
as for sport aerobatics flying (e.g. how do I fly a hammerhead), but
they often were not directly relevant to the group(s) in which they
were posted.

This new group will provide a forum to discuss flying unusual
attitudes.  It should be used both for discussions about issues that
concern unusual attitudes during regular flying as well as for posts
about intentional aerobatics.  This would include for instance the
quite frequent spin discussions.  It should also be used to discuss
issues concerning aerobatics competition or airshows.  It will also
provide a way of distributing information about aerobatics contests
and airshows world-wide.  This should include distribution of event
schedules and contest results.

Another topic that has been discussed in several newsgroups is the
question of whether certain airplanes can safely perform different
aerobatics maneuvers.  This can be an important safety issue for
renting and buying airplanes.  Again these discussions have been
distributed over several newsgroups.  They are important enough to
deserve a dedicated newsgroup.

Hopefully one important aspect of this group in general will be the
discussion of safety aspects of flying unusual attitudes.  For
instance there were several discussions about recovery techniques from
unusual attitudes recently.  Such discussions can be extremely
important during emergencies.  Hopefully this new newsgroup will
provide a more focused forum for such safety related discussions.

A FAQ for aerobatics is available at:
and will be expanded if the new newsgroup is established.

CHARTER: rec.aviation.aerobatics

Rec.aviation.aerobatics is an unmoderated USENET newsgroup dedicated
to discussions about flying in unusual attitudes.  Posts to this
newsgroup should be about any flying that is outside the range of the
standards of the Private Pilots License.  This includes competition
aerobatics and air-show flying as well as handling unintentional
unusual attitudes during emergencies.  Particular emphasis should be
placed on discussing the safety aspects of such maneuvers.  Other
topics are discussions about the capabilities of different airplanes
for aerobatics maneuvers and their inherent limitations.  It should
include schedules of airshows and competitions, and their results.



This RESULT will also sent to the following mailing list:

   International Aerobatics Club <iac-request at>


By accident, over a dozen 'vote received and counted' acknowledgements
were sent to people whose votes arrived too late.  Votes that arrived
after the deadline were not counted in the final tally and are not listed

rec.aviation.aerobatics Final Vote Ack

Voted Yes
00nzwilliams at                                    Nyal Z. Williams
101361.1434 at CompuServe.COM                                     Stefan Kwiecien
103134.246 at CompuServe.COM                                        Fred Abramson
103137.1556 at CompuServe.COM                                   Stephen Billester
103360.2620 at CompuServe.COM                                      Max Verastegui
1perdue at                                              Scott Perdue
70634.372 at CompuServe.COM                                         Patrick Clyne
71052.3250 at CompuServe.COM                                     Frank P. Matrone
74730.170 at CompuServe.COM                                           Jerry Davey
75502.1757 at CompuServe.COM                                            Greg Ryan
ab934 at                                           David L. Potter
abnt at                                                      dick smart
acrohead at                                             Rick Manzie
acrohead at                                            Leslie Eversole
aerobat at                                          George Rousseau
aeroland at                                          Dominique Roland
akosht at                                               Aaron Kosht
Akromatt at                                                Matt Wilderman
alan at                                           Alan Reichert
AlanLevin at                                                   Alan Levin
alenz at                                                Tommy Lenz
allnight at                                                    Johnny
amb at                                 andrew michael boardman
AMSnaproll at                                            Ashley Messenger
ANDERDW at                                                  Dave Anderson
aneale at                                             Andrew Neale
aragon at                                                   Cecilia Aragon
artful at                                          Michael C. Jones
aschwassmann at                                      Alex Schwassmann
BABCCK at                                         Babcock_Bruce
bdolan at                                              Brian C. Dolan
bdq at                                                Bryan Quickmire
bhoward at                                              Brian K. Howard
bi at                                         Balthasar T. Indermuehle
billn at                                                Bill Nihan
birchall at                                                   Shag
bk513 at                                     Robert J. Paxton
bmorth at                                                    Scott Hutson
bobleve at                                                   bobleve
bparham at ISI.EDU                                                   Bruce Parham
Brandtetal at                                                  Rae Brandt
brants at                                                      J.J. Brants
brian.boyle at neptune.Central.Sun.COM                 B. J. Boyle  Sun Dallas SR
brichard at                                           Beth Richard
bshaw at                                                  Bud Shaw
BSNorris at                                                  Brian Norris
bwalker at                                                Bill Walker
caufield at                                            James Caufield
CGBloom at                                 Cheryl Bloom <CGBloom at>
chadair at                                                     Chad Moore
charles_mueller at                           Charles Mueller
charlie_ryan at qm.liris.loral.COM                                   Charlie Ryan
CheckPilot at                                               James M. Hann
chip at                                                        Chip Davis
christer.h.bergstrom at             Christer H Bergstrom
clarkaw at                                                     Art Clark
clesinski at
clri at                                               Claes Rich=E1rd =
cls48 at                                   Christopher Lodge Stamper
clyde at                                         Clyde Smith-Stubbs
cmk at                                       Christopher M. Kelley
collier at AUSTIN.IBM.COM                                            John Collier
cpinson at                                              Charles Pinson
cpo6n95 at                                  Chris P. Osborne
cporter at                                            Charlie Porter
cranor at                                       Clayton L. Cranor
crn at                                             C.Newport
cswol at                                          Charlotte Swol
cwest at                                             Craig Westbrook
dalelama at                                                 Dale Evans
dana at                                                  Dana Brewer
daveball at                                            David Ball
davec at                                                   Dave Carlton
davem at
davidwu at                                   David Whitehorn-Umphres
davism at                                                    Duff Davis
dbradfield at                                     Dave Bradfield
ddj00 at                                             Deane D. Judd
DeafDude at                                                 Paul Bergeron
deene at                                                   Deene Ogden
deginton at                                             W.A. Eginton
dela at                                          Del Armstrong
dereks at                                         Derek Sherlock
derossi at                                             Chris Derossi
dfay at
dierks at                                            Herman Dierks
dln at                                                 Dick Norton
donkiely at                                                  Don Kiely
donsim at                                               Don Simmons
dougc at                                               Douglas Cronkhite
DougR at                                                Doug Rozendaal
drbell at                                                   David R. Bell
drf at                                           Dave Farley
drl at                                                      David Lyjak
DSowder at                                              Douglas A. Sowder
dsparks at                                                  Dave Sparks
dstacey at                                             David C. Stacey
Dukeav8r at                                                  Tom Dukerich
dyugo at                                                Dennis N. Yugo
Eaglell at                                                    Norm DeWitt
EGrossheim at                                                Ed Grossheim
ejnoomen at                                             Eric-Jan Noomen
elmore at                                           Kim Elmore
emmons at                                                   Monty
eric.t.olbricht at TEK.COM                                          Eric Olbricht
erikavg at                                            Erik Shilling
ermer at                                                      Rick Ermer
evrwrite at                                  Ed Redondo
Fly2Win at                                             Jeffrey D. Johnson
francois_moens at                                       Francois Moens
Frank.Hanish at                                        Frank J. Hanish
frankv at                                           Frank van der Hulst
freddy.stenbom at                                         Freddy Stenbom
FTRC at                                                 Lisa Millard
FultonK at                                                    Kirk Fulton
gbracey at                                                 Georgia Bracey
gei at                                     Guenther Eichhorn
geoff at                                          Geoff Peck
gero at                                              Gero Kuhlmann
ggriesel at                                             Gene Griesel
glaum at
glepore at                                                 Guido Lepore
gnelson at                                                 Gary Nelson
gpenn at                                                Geoff Penn
GREG_DINNING at                          Greg Dinning
Gypsy444 at                                                Patty Wagstaff
hanky at                                                  Hank Eyring
hardin at                                        Dr. Larry W. Hardin
hartmann at                                               Mike Hartmann
hbok at                                                          Hans Bok
hedley at                                                    Hedley Davis
Helmut.Stoecklin at                            Helmut Stoecklin
henderso at                                   Brian H. Henderson
hendrix at                                     Jim Hendrix
HGUW84A at                                       Eugene Michael Finan
hqb at                                                      Henry Bibb
huffaker at                                                Brian Huffaker
IanGPM at                                                      Ian Martin
iloop at                                               Geryl Mortensen
inet at                                             brian whatcott
Jayne_Schiek at                                       Jayne Schiek
JBonaccijr at                                                 Joe Bonacci
jbrowne at                                                     Juan Browne
jcarson at                                             Jim Carson
jd2avzeller at                                             Jim Zeller
Jeffrey_Oslick at                                           Jeff Oslick
jefzick at                                        Jeffrey F. Zych
jf_avon at                                         Jean-Francois Avon
jggoslin at                                                  Monument
jhwelsch at                                                Jack Welsch
jimw at                                                   Jim Ward
JJM0068 at                                          John Miller
jkerns1 at                                                   James Kerns
jmc at                                                  Jean-Marie Clement
jnorris at                                                   Joe Norris
john.freas at                                                 John Freas
John.Prickett at                                    John.Prickett at
john at                                                   John R. Johnson
jonesdl at                                      DARWIN JONES
jono at                                         Jonathan Baldock
jott at                                                     Jonathan Ott
jpotter at                                        Jim Potter
JRSEA4 at                                                  Johnny Cargill
jsm11 at                                               Jared Malarsky
JSMOLEN at                                          Smolen, James E.
jtuszka at                                             Jim Tuszka
jurlhurl at                                       Gerald Steverson Jr.
kanig at                                                 Steven P. Kanig
karim at                                             Karim Samir
Kathron at                                                   Kathy Straub
kathy at                                             Kathy Lankford
kchart at                                       Kenneth Hart
kd0r at                                           David Heinsohn
KEITH_E_DOYNE at                                 KEITH E DOYNE
KEN_CALLANDER at                                 Ken Callander
kevin at checksix                                           Kevin Baranski-Walker
kim at                                              Kim DeVaughn
KingD at                                                David W.S. King
kirichen at                                      Vladislav Kirichenko
KKDiamond at
kleing at                                            Klein Gilhousen
klick at                                                    Jim Klick
kmohan at                                                   Krish Mohan
koot at                                                       J.J.A. Koot
kwa123 at                                                  Kirk Wicker
landair at                                        Gary Bullard
landrew at                                               Louie Andrew
lee.mckerracher at                               Lee McKerracher
Lew_E_Adams at                                       Lew E Adams
LHAMER at                                                     Linda Hamer
lmcgee at                                           Lee McGee
lsalvadori at                                      Luca Salvadori
MAHarmon at                                                 Martha Harmon
marchal at                                          Yannick Marchal
Marc_Majka at                                                 Marc Majka
marksant at                                           Mark S. Santangelo
martid01 at TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU                                   Dave Martin
Matt at                                        Matthew Dixon Cowles
mauser at                                             Richard Chandler
mbaker at                                                   Mickey Baker
mbarkah at                                                    Ade Barkah
mdg at                                                   Mark Gould
mdriver at                                             Mark Driver
media at                                               Paul Eidsvik
melichar at                                    Chas
mgx at                                                  Michael Galloway
mhowells at                                  Martin Howells
mikeb at                                       Mike Brogley 408.433.7692
MikeBabin at                                                   Mike Babin
MOISEFF at UConnVM.UConn.Edu                                         Andy Moiseff
mrtim at                                                         T.M.
mseine at                                                 Mike Seine
mth112 at                                                      Mark Hafer
murder at                                            Lindsy Johnson
mvz at                                               Michael Zenner
mwoodward at                                          Mike Woodward
N10TK at                                                        Tom Kerns
nickb at                                               Nick Burkitt
nickle at                                         Nick Leaton
nicko at                                                   Nick O.
norman.barker at                                      NORMAN BARKER
norris at                                    George B. Norris
nsalexan at                             NATHAN STEED ALEXANDER
Ollivier.Robert at                                         Ollivier Robert
osborn at                                          John H. Osborn x230
OWENS at FSHEW3.HEP.FSU.EDU                                   Joseph F. Owens III
paosulli at                                          Peter A. O'Sullivan
pasma at                                                Kasper Pasma
paul_peterson at                           Paul Peterson
paxil at                                              Trevor Tymchuk
PBOWMAN at                               Penny Bowman
pctrader at                                               Don Crabill
pete at                                         Peter Disdale
peter at                                            Peter H. Schmidt
petera at                                              Peter Ashwood-Smith
peterl at                                             Peter C. Lauterbach
peters at csli.Stanford.EDU                                        Stanley Peters
peterson.194 at                                          Michael Peterson
peterson at                                          Steve Peterson
philgraf at                                                     Phil Graf
philod at                                               Philip O'Donoghue
phredo at                                          Blaine E. Thompson
pierce at                                                 Cole Pierce
pilots at                                                 David Sutton
pipercub at                                              terry buckley
pittss1s at                                               cliff wicker
PJCav at                                                  Paul J. Cavrell
PLogue4671 at                                      G. Paul Logue, IAC1247
PMCHAPMA at                      Peter McFaul Chapman
PMorgan001 at                                             Peter J. Morgan
pputter at                                       Paul Putter ~
pryan at                                      Philip Ryan
PTRUCKS at FTCMPD3RD.CO.SYMBIOS.COM                                   Trucks, Pax
p_hamilton at                                      Paul Hamilton
r at                                             Roland Bruestle
rbarbour at                                            Russ Barbour
rclark at                                         Rod Clark
rclynn at                                               Robert C. Lynn
rearly at                                          Ross Early
Recursive at                                                   Larry Lowe
rex at                                                       Rex Root
rgreen at                                                 Randy Green
richard.austin at                                     Richard Austin
RKlarich at                                            Richard S. Klarich
rkrauter at                                               Robert Krauter
rma at                                                  Rich Ahrens
rmenhorn at                                    Ronald Menhorn
robert.mccallum at                                        Robert McCallum
RobertB at AZStarNet.Com                                          Robert Bulechek
RobertM82 at                                             Robert E. Minkus
RobertsG at                               Gareth LL. Roberts
rodell at                                                      R.W. Odell
rs at                                                 Robert Smits
S2H at                                                         Steve Hill
sag at                             Stephen Glow <sag at>
SAlverson1 at                                         Stephen L. Alverson
sam at                                           Shane A. McLaughlin
sascsg at                                               Cynthia Grant
scarroll2 at                                      Steve Carroll
schneide at                                                PAS
SCHRICKM at      Mark Schrick, ST- San Jose, Calif. (408)451-8126
schwartz at                                              Dave Schwartz
scott at mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA                                    Scott McMaster
SEE at WZL-MTQ1.WZL.RWTH-AACHEN.DE                               Guenther Seemann
sisson at                                           Glenn Ellis Sisson
sissonp at                                        Phil Sisson IAC 8449
SkyboltJF at                                                  Bruce Green
spenny at                                               Steve Pennypacker
srat at                                          Steve Ratcliffe
SSPRUELL at                                         Steven Spruell
stat at                                          Earl Foster
stetson at                                            Jeffry Stetson
StreeterG at                                             Streeter Gary
swfraley at                                     Stuart Fraley
tawhite at                                        Thomas White
Tom_Myers at ENG.Trimble.COM                                         Tom R. Myers
travism at                                           Travis McWaters
trog at                                                       piranha
trucks at                                               trent trucks
ultimate at                                    Daryle L. Grounds, CPA
vadla at                                                   Arun Vadlamani
val at                                              Valentine Christian
vbjelic at                                      Vladislav Bjelic
vivier at                                           Herve VIVIER
VJD4909 at Jetson.UH.EDU                                             Vickie Davis
waltp at                                                 Walt Plentis
weaver at                                              Allison Weaver
wfrench at                                     William French
wjh at                                                  Wendy Havir
wmercier at                                           Wayne R. Mercier
WoodtickIV at                                                 Josh Pruzek
wrollins at NMSU.Edu                                           William H. Rollins
Wwplummer at                                           William W. Plummer

Voted No
archer at                                                   Vincent Archer
booda at                                             Martin H. Booda
csaamw at                                               Michiel Wijers
hgoldste at                                         Howard Goldstein
jay at                                                     Jay Hennessey
kevin.hooker at                                            K Hooker
khan at                                                   Hasnain Khan
lancec at                                   Lance K. Chun
mb at                                                 Marcus Breiing
mckellar at                                            Peter McKellar
ml3e+ at                                            Michael Loomis
olav at                                             Olav Nieuwejaar
patl at                                   Patrick J. LoPresti
rick at                                             Richard H. Miller
ryang at                                     Glen Patrick Ryan
sledge at                                        Thomas Bueschgens
smarry at                                         Smarasderagd
stainles at                                                  Dwight Brown
tlawson at                             Todd C. Lawson
wakelyn at                                                   Tom Wakelyn
widenius at                                         Risto Widenius
wrg at                                                    W.R. Giacona

mmt at RedBrick.COM                                          Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS

Votes in error
ianj at
   ! No vote statement in message
justkk at                                                          JustKK
   ! No vote statement in message
MLWilhelmi at
   ! No vote statement in message
slivings at
   ! Conflicting votes

------ End of Forwarded Article


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