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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: Goldfish, aka The

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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: Goldfish, aka The


Thread: Goldfish, aka The

Message: RE: Goldfish, aka The

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From: "Ray M" <acrodude at>

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 17:58:31 UTC



I am a judge's school instructor and you have learned the wrong criteria.  The 
45 is based on 45 degrees from the zero lift axis... That means that 45's are 
judged based on attitude, not track. Don Peterson is correct, he should not have 
to adjust his pitch angle since it is based on attitude...

Ray Rose

acrodude at

>From: Mike Davis <davis at>
>To: iac reflector <iac at>
>Subject: RE: Goldfish, aka The "Spider" (ZL axis does not apply)
>Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 10:34:00 PDT
>whoa!  What I remember from judges school?
>'zero-lift axis' only applies to verticals.
>Yes your 45's need to be 45's and you need to adjust your
>pitch accordingly.  This is no different than the jillion other
>45 lines found in the blue book.
>pretty tough to fly a 45 when generating 'zero lift'!
>davis at
> ----------
>From:  administrator[SMTP:administrator at]
>Sent:  Sunday, April 06, 1997 10:04 PM
>To:  iac
>Subject:  Goldfish, aka The "Spider"
>I recent practice of the goldfish in the advanced sequence, and obvious
>debate is cropping up regarding judgeing criterion.
>In every airplane that I know, a constant 45 degree "zero lift axis"
>before and after the ascending snap roll results in a markedly flatter
>flight path after the snap roll.  So much speed is lost in the roll that
>this is simply inevitable.
>ALL of the critiquers I have been working with are calling "shallow
>after" for this portion.  Adopting enough pitch to present something near   
>to a continuous 45 degree flight path results in about a 70 degree pitch
>angle.  Clearly, this is substantially at odds with the red book.
>So, when we go to contests this year, are we going to get marked down for   
>either "shallow after" or "steep after" (due to taking steep pitch to
>give prettier presentation)?  Anybody else think this is going to give
>lots of opportunity for random judging.
>It might be worth saying that if we see a good looking flight path after
>the snap, then we KNOW that the zero lift axis has gone steeper, yes?
>What to do, what to do.
>Don Peterson
>Dallas, Tx.
>PS:  I prefer watching a good flight path presentation, and have no
>objection to flying it.  I also find it easier to judge, but the rule
>book says this should not be so.

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