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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: Scoring loops

Thread: Scoring loops

Message: Scoring loops

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From: "PAUL LOGUE" <GPAULOGUE at msn.com>

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 13:59:21 UTC

Message:

  Recently, Ken Larson wrote:


 Regarding the judging criteria of  a loop, I think those of you that advise
allowing a looping figure to drift in a cross wind, are giving some some bad
advice.
   Page 97 of the Red Book very plainly says, "The loop must be flown
entirely in one vertical plane. The circular loop must be wind corrected." It
does not say, "wind corrected except ----." If it is allowed to drift with
the wind, it has not been wind corrected.  The definition of a "plane" in my
dictionary is "A surface containing all the straight lines connecting any two
points on it." This must be is relation to the earth, not some balloon
floating in the air.
    When I was seriously competing, one of my excercises was to start a loop
over a road, with a direct Texas cross wind, about 1500 ft., and fly the
entire loop keeping  my wings level and staying over the road. It can be done
with practice.
    I promise you that if I am your judge and you fly a loop on the Y-axis
with a cross wind, and drift, you will be downgraded one point for 5 degrees
of drift, because it has not been "wind corrected" like the book says.
    Now you have my interpretation of the rule, for what it is worth.

Ken Larson
Dallas TX
---------------------


Ken,

I understand where you are coming from on this interpretation.

However:

1.  I believe that "The circular loop must be wind corrected"  refers only to 
the head-wind component.

2.  "The loop must be flown entirely in one vertical plane" should be removed 
from the rule book. This is not the first time this statement has caused 
disagreement.  I think the intent was to say that the longtitudual axis of the 
airplane should be parallel to the x-axis.  (perhaps one of the original 
authors could shed light on this)

3.  I believe that paragraph 8.3 starting on p84 (Wind Correction) supports 
what I am saying. It's too long to include here. I know that you have read it 
many times. 
CHEATING NOT WITHSTANDING,  CRABBING IS NOT ALLOWED.

4.  In your looping example on the y-axis..... if I were judging and saw 
crabbing, 1 point for ea. 5 degrees.

5.  Also, in your example, at what point do you calculate the drift angle... 
since it is getting larger with time?

As a side note to new judges:  It is strange to me that the "Red Book" gives 
seven rules to apply in judging rolling turns with specific reductions of the 
grade from the base 10, but the only criteria for judging a loop is nothing 
except that it "must be round and in the same vertical plane."  It is because 
of this lack of direction from the "Red Book", that every judge and/or 
prospective judge must come up with a system that can be used consistently 
from loop to loop, no matter who is flying. If you are a prospective judge, 
please do not wait until you start on the line to think about this.

Well Ken, that's my 4 cents worth...Thanks for all your years of IAC support 
and service.

Judging discussions and/or opinions are long overdue.  I am pleased that Brian 
is picking up the "Heads Up" editorial where Jerry Gerdes left off.  Support 
his effort by giving him input for the column.

Paul Logue
IAC#1247


----------
From: 	iac-request at harten.cbu.edu on behalf of N21KL at aol.com
Sent: 	Tuesday, May 06, 1997 4:37 PM
To: 	iac at harten.cbu.edu
Subject: 	Fwd: Competition questions


 Regarding the judging criteria of  a loop, I think those of you that advise
allowing a looping figure to drift in a cross wind, are giving some some bad
advice.
   Page 97 of the Red Book very plainly says, "The loop must be flown
entirely in one vertical plane. The circular loop must be wind corrected." It
does not say, "wind corrected except ----." If it is allowed to drift with
the wind, it has not been wind corrected.  The definition of a "plane" in my
dictionary is "A surface containing all the straight lines connecting any two
points on it." This must be is relation to the earth, not some balloon
floating in the air.
    When I was seriously competing, one of my excercises was to start a loop
over a road, with a direct Texas cross wind, about 1500 ft., and fly the
entire loop keeping  my wings level and staying over the road. It can be done
with practice.
    I promise you that if I am your judge and you fly a loop on the Y-axis
with a cross wind, and drift, you will be downgraded one point for 5 degrees
of drift, because it has not been "wind corrected" like the book says.
    Now you have my interpretation of the rule, for what it is worth.

Ken Larson
Dallas TX
---------------------