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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: [IAC-L:1649] Re: Boxes in General

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ACRO E-mail Archive Thread: [IAC-L:1649] Re: Boxes in General


Thread: [IAC-L:1649] Re: Boxes in General

Message: [IAC-L:1649] Re: Boxes in General

Follow-Up To: ACRO Email list (for List Members only)

From: Hubie Tolson <tolson at>

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:09:51 UTC


 The FAA in my region has been very reasonable to deal with in
establishing aerobatic boxes over both controlled (1 box) and
uncontrolled (2 boxes) airports. Contact me directly if you would like
copies of the applications, waivers etc...Also, IAC, through the efforts
of FAA liason Bill Finnagin, was extremely helpful.

If you have the property owner's permission (sometimes not necessary),
and no unusual, unsafe airspace situations, I am told that there is no
basis for denial. To show precedent to a possibly new/inexperienced
FISDO employee, it is advisable to gather gobs of other waivers from
others and send them as examples to show that this is done frequently,
and that it's OK to make an affirmative decision. These also will serve
as a guide for the application processor, to establish supplimental
rules as waiver attachments, so use caution in the examples you
include.  Would also advise aerial photos from all directions showing
that no houses, etc are below your area.

I volunteered to demo under the supervision of the FAA person who
processed my application. No tumbles, nothing low, just precise, crispy,
(well, as precise and crispy as I can make them) classical maneuvers
made her quite comfortable.

Most importantly, I would call the FAA, and tell them that you are
trying to establish a box in advance of sending the application.  Talk
to Ben Morphew, or Kurt Haukohl (Aero Country) first, and find out who
they work with, and if they are reasonable to deal with. If they are
reasonable, ask for them, introduce yourself, and try to get the
application processed by this person. Find out what they expect in the
package which you send along with the application. Then, a few days or a
week after the FAA receives your application, follow up with a call to
insure receipt, and to answer any questions or concerns, ie...fix the
problems before a rejection is issued.

There may need to be "letters of agreement" with other ATC facilities,
usually related to the altitude of the top of your box, and the bottom
of the ATC airspace sector. So, you should ask before establishing a box
ceiling on your application. You might consider a lower top altitude,
otherwise you involve another level of bureaucracy, another approval (or
possible rejection), and additional supplimental rules.

My waivers are all 1 year long, and only require a re-print of the
original application, with new dates. Re-apprevals are immediate, and
don't even require phone conversation usually.


Gypsy444 at wrote:

> If the FAA would give us more boxes, and more boxes at controlled
> airports,
> we might have less accidents.  It's a different scenario for an
> aerobatic
> pilot to fly in controlled circumstances.  For eg., there is usually a
> safety
> monitor on the ground, it keeps the actualy flying more professional
> and
> subject to scrutiny and it encourages critiquing by like minded
> pilots.  The
> FAA has wanted us to be away from airports (don't aerobatic pilots
> belong on
> airports?  Skydivers are encourage to be there, why not us?) for
> "safety"
> reasons... Safety for other pilots in the area I suppose.  But they
> need to
> understand that we are not a conflict to other traffic is the box is
> situated
> properly, and that the aerobatic pilots are always happy to work with
> other
> traffic.
> SO, how about a concerted effort from IAC to demand (?) boxes at
> airports so
> we can keep a better eye on each other.
> Just ramblin' on, Patty


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